Re: The Oreo (T.J.'s YJ)

Jake 4/1/2014, 2:16 pm

From spicer themselves:

http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5325.pdf
http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5304-2.pdf

They're talking about snap rings though, not sure if they changed them to C clips? If they are snap rings though you won't need to pull the cross pin to remove the shafts.

If the cross pin retaining bolt is actually a drift pin, you should definitely replace it as Mark says (that being only if you remove it though). Drift pins are intended to be used only once.

THOOPY3 4/1/2014, 2:41 pm

hobhayward wrote:From spicer themselves:

http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5325.pdf
http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5304-2.pdf

They're talking about snap rings though, not sure if they changed them to C clips? If they are snap rings though you won't need to pull the cross pin to remove the shafts.

Not sure if this makes all that big a difference (in terms of removing shafts), but I'm talking about the D35 and not the D30. I know for sure I've got a C-clip rear end, so I think it's inevitable that I have to remove the cross pin bolt to lower the cross pin itself to actually have room to get at the shaft. From what I've seen it looks pretty tight, if not impossible to get a hand in there to take the C-clip off to slide the axle shaft out.

**Mark** 4/1/2014, 3:03 pm

After you remove the cross pin bolt and pin you can push in on each axle and the c clips will fall off/ in the carrier and then you can remove the axles,, very simple to do!
You will need a slide hammer bearing removal tool and a bearing/seal installation tool.
You may be able to rent for free at auto zone.
Some of the older yj's 1989 or so,, have a d35 with out c clips so it might be an all inclusive kit if it comes with snap rings.

Jake 4/1/2014, 3:18 pm

Totally thought you were talking about a d30 rather than 35, not sure why lol.

If its like my 8.8 (also a C-clip axle) the cross pin retaining bolt and the cross pin will come out pretty easily. No clue why it would be better to remove the carrier straps..

THOOPY3 4/1/2014, 3:52 pm

hobhayward wrote:No clue why it would be better to remove the carrier straps..

The videos I've seen showed it being pretty hard to try and get a socket on it without it being at a terrible angle and risking damage to/snapping the retaining bolt. I do have a pivoting extension though that might be able to get the job done, but I won't really know until I get the cover off. Speaking of, my diff covers should be arriving tomorrow, so once I get those painted I'll be ready to start the shaft swap, hopefully in the next few weeks.

Anyone got a garage they'd be willing to lend for the job? Lunch and drinks are on me if you do. Maybe we could make this one of those instructional NSJ events like the ones that took place in the past.

**Mark** 4/2/2014, 7:28 am

If you find it necessary remove the carrier bearing strap/cap be sure not to put it back on upside down!! scratch

MARK IT BEFORE REMOVAL!!
BE SURE TO TORQUE IT TO SPEC WHEN YOU REINSTALL IT. cheers

After filling with gear oil drive the jeep in CIRCLES Slowly, do a few to the left and a few to the right slowly.
That will get gear oil down the axle tubes to the Axle bearings, then you can road test it.

THOOPY3 4/2/2014, 10:47 am

Mark wrote:If you find it necessary remove the carrier bearing strap/cap be sure not to put it back on upside down!! MARK IT BEFORE REMOVAL!!
BE SURE TO TORQUE IT TO SPEC WHEN YOU REINSTALL IT.

I did see/read that that step is quite important, so I will make sure to keep track of proper placement. And I will definitely torque it to spec.

Mark wrote:After filling with gear oil drive the jeep in CIRCLES Slowly, do a few to the left and a few to the right slowly.
That will get gear oil down the axle tubes to the Axle bearings, then you can road test it.

That trick I hadn't thought of, and it makes a hell of a lot of sense so I appreciate the idea. This should all be going down within the next few weeks (weather permitting) so hopefully I'll have updates forthcoming.

This weekend will be dedicated to purely cosmetic things. I plan on painting the new diff covers, swapping on the half doors and putting the full doors into storage for the summer, and removing the passenger seat to finally remove the busted bolt from it (and possibly mounting the power inverter at the same time). Amazing the inspiration you get from a little bit of sunlight.

**CrawlingForward** 4/2/2014, 3:11 pm

Liking the new nickname, ha ha.

THOOPY3 4/2/2014, 3:42 pm

CrawlingForward wrote:Liking the new nickname, ha ha.

I wondered if anyone would notice. I've been calling it that for years, and with the fog lights relocated to the bumper Four Eyes just really didn't apply anymore. I debated calling the thread "Project Double Stuff" but decided against that for blatantly obvious reasons.

THOOPY3 4/2/2014, 11:54 pm

These puppies are beefy.

The Oreo (T.J.'s YJ) - Page 6 Diff_c10

**Mark** 4/3/2014, 9:15 am

Riddle me this Oreo Man, lol, what color are you going to paint them Question

THOOPY3 4/3/2014, 10:50 am

I'm going with a white on black theme because I just can't get myself to paint one all white. I'm debating between something similar to this:

The Oreo (T.J.'s YJ) - Page 6 Riddle10

or painting the cover black, the inside and border of the square white, and the 'R' black, which in all my searching I haven't seen anyone do. I'm probably going to try this latter version first and see how it turns out, and if I decide against it I can easily cover it with black and start over. God knows I've got enough paint to do like 25 covers kicking around my parents' house.

THOOPY3 4/6/2014, 11:23 pm

Well it was a very productive weekend for the Jeep. I got the half doors installed, the diff covers painted, the power inverter mounted (that process can be found in my other thread on here), and picked up my new chromoly shafts for the D35. My cab cover also arrived on Friday but I don't have any plans for it yet.

I ended up just hitting the covers with satin black, as I tried to do the white on black and it just kept coming out crappy. Plus this way when I bash them on something it'll be easy to touch them up.

The Oreo (T.J.'s YJ) - Page 6 Img_0815

And the half doors are back on, so I will be able to again enjoy doors less weather with ease. Gotta get used to looking through plastic again.

The Oreo (T.J.'s YJ) - Page 6 Img_0816

My new MV50 compressor should be showing up tomorrow, so I'll have another new toy to mess around with next weekend. I haven't decided if I will be swapping the shafts next weekend or if I may do a little more prep/planning. But either way that and the installation of the new diff covers should be happening soon.

THOOPY3 4/7/2014, 1:09 pm

So as long as the weather report holds steady, the plan is to swap in the new chromoly shafts for the D35 this weekend. At the same time, I will also be putting on my new D30 diff cover, which means I'll be draining both axles and will need to refill them.

I've seen that both the 30 and the 35 take either 80W-90 regular or 75W-140 synthetic gear oil. Is there any advantage to using the synthetic stuff? My best guess is there isn't synthetic in there now (but I've never been inside either axle so can't confirm that) and that I'd be fine with the plain-Jane stuff. I also haven't had a chance to look in my Haynes manual, but does anyone know about how much gear oil I'll need to fill both axles? I've seen 2.5 pints for the 30 and 3.5 pints for the 35 (so about 6 pints total) but have no idea if that sounds reasonable. Riddler advertises that the covers give a little more fluid capacity because of the slightly raised plugs, so should I get enough for say 7 pints? More? Obviously I'll make sure to have extra as opposed to not enough.

Anyone have any opinions or experience on the matter? I'd love to hear any and all.

**Tonellin** 4/7/2014, 1:21 pm

I've always filled right to the bottom of the fill hole, even with a cover with a higher plug location the added fluid is marginal. You'll be able to tell if you overfilled because it will coming spitting out of the breather tube haha

I can't remember...do you have lockers in either axle? I'm asking beacuse I have to use 75w-140 with the factory lockers. Outside of those applications I've always used 75 or 80w-90 fluid

Also, if you plan on doing a lot of water crossing or looking at your diff insides I'd highly recommend a lubelocker gasket over the RTV. Just the time alone I've saved with the lublockers instead of cleaning off both the diff and cover of RTV has been worth the $20 price tag

**CrawlingForward** 4/7/2014, 1:31 pm

Tonellin wrote:I've always filled right to the bottom of the fill hole, even with a cover with a higher plug location the added fluid is marginal. You'll be able to tell if you overfilled because it will coming spitting out of the breather tube haha

I can't remember...do you have lockers in either axle? I'm asking beacuse I have to use 75w-140 with the factory lockers. Outside of those applications I've always used 75 or 80w-90 fluid

Also, if you plan on doing a lot of water crossing or looking at your diff insides I'd highly recommend a lubelocker gasket over the RTV. Just the time alone I've saved with the lublockers instead of cleaning off both the diff and cover of RTV has been worth the $20 price tag

Do NOT fill all the way to the fill plug on the Riddlers! (Ask me how I know)

The Oreo (T.J.'s YJ) - Page 6 546756_10100526931496906_218999113_n

Missed a great Jeep run because of it. Blew out the seal on the way there and army crawled under the Jeep through a patch of poison ivy in shorts and a t-shirt to investigate/pull the driveshaft before getting it towed. Suckage ensued.

Overfilling will create enough pressure to blow out the seals, even with a clear breather tube. As long as it's enough to fill to the bottom of the gear, you'll be fine, as it'll fling fluid throughout the diff. If you were towing, I'd tell you to err on the side of more for heat dissipation, but you won't have enough load to really worry about that.

Higher weight is nice for quieting down noisy auto-lockers, but other than that, the standard 75w90 works great.

x100 on the lube lockers. I hate RTV, so they are one of my favorite purchases I've made for the Jeep.

THOOPY3 4/7/2014, 1:33 pm

Tonellin wrote:I've always filled right to the bottom of the fill hole, even with a cover with a higher plug location the added fluid is marginal. You'll be able to tell if you overfilled because it will coming spitting out of the breather tube haha

I can't remember...do you have lockers in either axle? I'm asking beacuse I have to use 75w-140 with the factory lockers. Outside of those applications I've always used 75 or 80w-90 fluid

Also, if you plan on doing a lot of water crossing or looking at your diff insides I'd highly recommend a lubelocker gasket over the RTV. Just the time alone I've saved with the lublockers instead of cleaning off both the diff and cover of RTV has been worth the $20 price tag

No lockers on either end, though maybe in the future one in the 30 but that won't be happening soon. I probably should have ponied up for the lubelockers, but I don't do a lot of crossings and I'm not hoping to be looking at the insides much, so will consider picking some up in advance of doing this kind of thing again. Tearing into axles is a whole new ballgame for me. I've done lots of work on way too many shitboxes (both mine and others'), but up until now I've been blessed to say none of that work has involved tearing apart an axle, which is why I have so many questions and appreciate the responses.

The only difference between 75W-90 and 80W-90 is the temperature rating correct? 75W-90 being the one able to withstand colder temperatures if I'm correct.

THOOPY3 4/7/2014, 1:37 pm

CrawlingForward wrote:

Do NOT fill all the way to the fill plug on the Riddlers! (Ask me how I know)

Missed a great Jeep run because of it. Blew out the seal on the way there and army crawled under the Jeep through a patch of poison ivy in shorts and a t-shirt to investigate/pull the driveshaft before getting it towed. Suckage ensued.

Overfilling will create enough pressure to blow out the seals, even with a clear breather tube. As long as it's enough to fill to the bottom of the gear, you'll be fine, as it'll fling fluid throughout the diff. If you were towing, I'd tell you to err on the side of more for heat dissipation, but you won't have enough load to really worry about that.

Higher weight is nice for quieting down noisy auto-lockers, but other than that, the standard 75w90 works great.

x100 on the lube lockers. I hate RTV, so they are one of my favorite purchases I've made for the Jeep.

This is very good to know. Do either of you know if I had the measurements correct in that case? I know you still have a D30 Geoff but I think you're on front and rear 44s if I'm right Nick. I have the Haynes in the Jeep so when I'm out of work I'll bring it into my apartment for some light reading later and see what it says.

**Tonellin** 4/7/2014, 1:38 pm

CrawlingForward wrote:
Tonellin wrote:I've always filled right to the bottom of the fill hole, even with a cover with a higher plug location the added fluid is marginal. You'll be able to tell if you overfilled because it will coming spitting out of the breather tube haha

I can't remember...do you have lockers in either axle? I'm asking beacuse I have to use 75w-140 with the factory lockers. Outside of those applications I've always used 75 or 80w-90 fluid

Also, if you plan on doing a lot of water crossing or looking at your diff insides I'd highly recommend a lubelocker gasket over the RTV. Just the time alone I've saved with the lublockers instead of cleaning off both the diff and cover of RTV has been worth the $20 price tag

Do NOT fill all the way to the fill plug on the Riddlers! (Ask me how I know)

Missed a great Jeep run because of it. Blew out the seal on the way there and army crawled under the Jeep through a patch of poison ivy in shorts and a t-shirt to investigate/pull the driveshaft before getting it towed. Suckage ensued.

Overfilling will create enough pressure to blow out the seals, even with a clear breather tube. As long as it's enough to fill to the bottom of the gear, you'll be fine, as it'll fling fluid throughout the diff. If you were towing, I'd tell you to err on the side of more for heat dissipation, but you won't have enough load to really worry about that.

Higher weight is nice for quieting down noisy auto-lockers, but other than that, the standard 75w90 works great.

x100 on the lube lockers. I hate RTV, so they are one of my favorite purchases I've made for the Jeep.

Holy crap! So the seals must give when it can't vent fast enough? I guess I've been lucky to never have that happen. Even with the aftermarket covers I've used (not riddlers) I've filled to bottom of hole and never had any come out the breather...definitely better to be safe than sorry by lowering the fill level some tho

**Tonellin** 4/7/2014, 1:45 pm

THOOPY3 wrote:
wrote:
This is very good to know. Do either of you know if I had the measurements correct in that case? I know you still have a D30 Geoff but I think you're on front and rear 44s if I'm right Nick. I have the Haynes in the Jeep so when I'm out of work I'll bring it into my apartment for some light reading later and see what it says.

I found this on jeepforum. Good little writeup, his diff is way cleaner than I ever got mine when I used RTV haha
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/basic-diff-lube-maintenance-728231/

**dongalonga** 4/7/2014, 1:46 pm

Lube lockers for sure. One of the best mods I did to my old TJ.

**CrawlingForward** 4/7/2014, 1:49 pm

Tonellin wrote:

Holy crap! So the seals must give when it can't vent fast enough? I guess I've been lucky to never have that happen. Even with the aftermarket covers I've used (not riddlers) I've filled to bottom of hole and never had any come out the breather...definitely better to be safe than sorry by lowering the fill level some tho

To be fair, it wasn't as bad as it looks. That was on the D30, and the SOLID plugs are like *all* the way up, ha ha ha. I pretty much filled the entire pumpkin, ha ha ha. I don't remember what I filled it to when I replaced the seal and refilled it, but it still leaked (bad CAD nylon bearing causes play which wears the seal), so I just let it leak until it was below the level of the tubes and it stopped, ha ha ha.

For the rear, I've got the 8.8 and the Riddler. And because it's so tilted it kind of throws off the capacity, so I just pumped in what was left of my bottle until I figured it was enough. Not scientific by any means, but it's still good 3 years and like 10k miles later.

Also, I've stopped worrying about axle leaks. I just take it as confirmation that it's still got more than enough fluid. lol!

**Tonellin** 4/7/2014, 1:55 pm

CrawlingForward wrote:
Also, I've stopped worrying about axle leaks. I just take it as confirmation that it's still got more than enough fluid.

That's one thing that always holds true with jeeps, if you aren't leaking any oil it's because you don't have any haha

**CrawlingForward** 4/7/2014, 1:56 pm

dongalonga wrote:Lube lockers for sure. One of the best mods I did to my old TJ.

Yeah, the reason why I love them is because the first time I did it with RTV, it ended up leaking because I didn't do it that well. So I had to *redo* the damn thing, scraping it off, getting new fluid, re-RTVing.

Much less likely to leak, and if it saves you from having to redo it even *once*, it's pretty much paid for itself.

Jake 4/7/2014, 2:07 pm

My only input would be.. if synthetic smells better than conventional its probably worth it lol.

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